David Truman - The Snowball of Truth and the World of Illusions

Jesus: This world, you can build beautiful things here. It is REAL. But it is not the way people have decided it is. It is not so hard and prison-like. It is not so fixed.

David: In other words, it is only hard and prison-like in one's BELIEF about it. That quality of being hard, that quality of being prison-like, is an illusion or a closely held belief ABOUT what it is.

Jesus: Yes.

David: Just like a man could say, "I have a hard wife." And she is not, in reality, hard. Or, "This is a hard world." But it is not, in reality, hard. He BELIEVES his wife to be hard, and it makes her appear so. He believes this matter to be hard, and it makes it appear so to oneself. But it does not really define matter accurately. That's what you're saying, right?

Jesus: That is what I am saying.

David: Okay. The reality of things is different ...

Jesus: Yes. Of everything.

David: ... than is the set of assumptions that people have agreed to make about those things. But those assumptions that they make they are wedded to, to an extent where they really buy that quite thoroughly. Right?

Jesus: Yes.

David: And BECAUSE they buy it so thoroughly, they experience it as such. They experience it as they believe it to be. A man believes he has a hard wife. He experiences his wife as being hard. He believes this is a hard wall, and he experiences it as being hard. His belief lends it this quality. Or does not exactly lend it this quality, but it makes it so for him. It can't take on the quality just because he assigns it to it. Not in reality. Is that correct?

Jesus: That is correct.

David: So that's why the word "illusions" is pertinent, in that sense. He can experience it as hard as he wants, but it doesn't lend it that REALITY. It simply lends his experience to be that, right? Like they tell us the amount of space there is in an atom is the vast, vast, vast preponderance. There is almost nothing but empty space in matter.

Jesus: There was a time when you kind of saw it. You saw that this world is not what it looks like. You saw that it is malleable. And you did not have the time, at that time, to gain a real grasp on that. But there was a time when you saw it for what it is.

David: Yeah, mmm hmm, I remember that time. I thought I could reach through cars. I felt vertigo, even while sitting on the floor. Nothing had any real substance in the sense that we've assigned substance. It was all translucent, and it was only light, arrangements of light. It had no physicality that we would determine as physicality.

Jesus: Yeah.

David: Whoooo! I see your point. So, it's time for the rearrangement of beliefs.

Jesus: Yes.

David: What is profoundly obvious about beliefs is the attachment that we have to our beliefs is such that even when contradictory realities arise in our faces with tremendous power and persistence, we will tend to deny the reality of those things. Right?

Jesus: Yes.

David: It would be like a man loves a woman, and she says, "You don't love me." And she just persists in this view. And he is actually LIVING the fact that he loves her. He's ample evidence. He exists as ample evidence that he loves her. There is no way that she can think otherwise truly about him. And YET, she would like to remain attached to her ideas. "No one loves me. You don't love me," and so forth and so on. Right? So right in the FACE of the most glaring contradiction, the world would hang onto its idea. Now THAT is stubborn.

That shows something very interesting. People normally say, "Well, show me different, and I'll believe different." It's actually not quite that simple. One can be shown quite different, and that does not mandate that a person should change their belief, or relinquish their beliefs to the contrary. It begins to show what a personal decision it entails. A person must really rise up against their own beliefs themselves. And that evidence doesn't MATTER in the world of belief, particularly. That shows a lot, doesn't it? About the quality of determination, or stubbornness in the matter of holding beliefs.

Jesus: People are stubborn. They are very stubborn.

David: Many people think it's important that no one loves them as an individual preference of belief. Hmm?

Jesus: It's isolation that they want. You see? And that is the thing about the ability to create the world in this way. You see, people have gone into even a deeper illusion. They've created a whole world of their own that's not even shared with anybody else.

David: Yeah, a dream within a dream ... .

Jesus: A dream within a dream. That is what people have. Many people have a dream within this dream. This dream is agreed upon, and there's nothing really wrong with it, in what it was meant to be, what it could have been. If people had maintained their consciousness, remembered where they came from, remembered who they are, they could enjoy this context. But they have HURT it, this context, by their thoughts. And they have created sub-contexts with their own mind that have nothing to do with anybody else, you know? Alienated sub-contexts. Fantasy worlds in which things are in such a way that support a person's beliefs. An illusory individual nightmare within a collective illusory nightmare. And there are beliefs about what other people think, beliefs about "this one doesn't like me," and "love is impossible," and...

David: No, no -- "love is impossible" is part of the COLLECTIVE dream, right?

Jesus: It has BECOME that. So now the collective dream has become a nightmare. That's where it has gone wrong. But part of why that is the case is because, as individuals, so many created isolated sub-dreams that allowed them to lose touch with the reality of the entities around them. And that is a bad idea. You can create whatever the hell reality you want, but don't lose touch with who people are, what reality is! Who you are! It doesn't matter whether you think that box is a piano or an elephant or what. And everyone in the world can agree about that, and experience that. You know what I mean?

David: Right. Who cares?

Jesus: They can have elephants and so forth, and the elephants WILL manifest if everybody believes in it. Whatever! You know? But DON'T create illusions about who people are, and who you are, because that is an isolated dream, when it no longer is in touch with other people's reality. An isolated dream is a bad thing.

It is the individuals' dreams that create the problem that make that collective dream of isolation. That we enforce it in each other, and so forth.

David: Yeah. So there is a manufacturing process that must go on within the individual. And when a number of individuals are spinning on a similar wavelength, then they create a collective acceptance.

Jesus: Yes. And it spreads like a disease, reinforcing it in each other, because that is the nature of human beings. Human beings, or MOST entities actually, will create a collective understanding that creates the context, they will do that. But when it goes south it becomes very important to be a different kind of fish, and break out of the school. You know what I mean? Be different. Think different. And question this context. What one thinks is true about one's context should come heavily under question on this planet at the moment, cause people have made a lot of shit up. But consciousness always dominates over the dream.

David: Yes, thank God for that. Higher thought is more powerful because it is more heart-resonant. No matter how dire the dream gets, it still lacks that quality of heart-resonance. And that's why it cannot ultimately prevail. It has no inherent support from the heart. Only from the mind.

What we are trying to do is to start another little seed that can become a snowball rolling down the mountain. If we could simply go into the citadels of thought and plant the seed that, "Look, something else, something truer to the heart," would be all that could redeem this world. It would have to be right by the heart. And it would express true heart, and that would be redemptive, both to the individual and to the collectiveness of individuals, which is nothing but individuals. Right? That's it, isn't it?

Jesus: Yeah.

David: We've got a great hill and a tremendous force of gravity, but we need a better snowball to start. Cause all these snowballs are wreaking havoc because of their essential misconceptions and deviance from the HEART.

Jesus: Yeah, they got the idea in their head of what mankind is, what its likely destiny is, and they are CREATING that.

David: So no one wants the results, but they are mightily attached to the process by which the most terrible results are being achieved.

Jesus: They believe in it. It does not matter whether they LIKE it or not. They think it is what is SO, and what must BE. And therefore, it is happening. Therefore they are MAKING it happen.

David: Oh, wow, yeah. In other words, the couple says, for example, "We can't get along. It would be impossible. We are doomed." And then they are doomed.

Jesus: Exactly. And that is what this world thinks about itself.

David: And people think, "I CAN'T transcend my neurotic tendencies. I cannot. And therefore I am doomed."

Jesus: And therefore they cannot, and therefore they suffer the doom they feel. They do not have to like it. They just have to believe it. It does not have to be pleasant to them.

David: Right. They could hate it in fact. In truth, they DO in fact hate it. "It's so terrible, but what can I do? I have no choice."

Jesus: The problem is when so many people have their own sub-dream, it is easy for them to STAY in their sub-dreams. If there were more people who were in reality, like you are, things would be better. You know the human beings around you are real. You see them. You don't see your dreams about them, for the most part. The fact that 99.9% percent of the world sees dreams instead of people makes it easier for all people to stay in their dreams. If 50% of the world were seeing reality, then they would tend to jar the other people out of their dreams. They're leaving each other alone, basically, in a certain way.

David: Even if they get together in a marriage or a community, but they accept the person's ego-persona as real, then they are in fact leaving each other alone, because there is no contact between them of any substance.

Jesus: Yes, they are each enjoying the privacy of their own mind. There is no REAL contact between them, not REAL contact. Only a person who sees another human being can create real contact with another human being.

David: Oh, god! That's absolutely true.

Jesus: So the dreams are not disturbed. They can have conversations, they can carry out their days, but the dreams are undisturbed because they are not involved enough with each other's intimate minds to disturb each other's dreams.

David: Yeah, it's a world of make believe, and the acceptance of the story of each one. "How are you?" "Rotten." "Oh, I know it," and so forth.

Jesus: Nobody's going to question each other's dreams. They are happy to have their own dreams, and let everyone else have THEIR dreams. That's the dream-within-the-dream. It is totally isolating. And as you say, "Bad things grow in the dark."

David: Yeah. They question each other's dreams in little ways. They complain, "I hate that you said that, and you are completely wrong about that." But in so doing, they don't question the overall fact of the dream and its basic content.

Jesus: They question it in little ways, but they do not have the ability to actually make an impact on the dream, because they are not relating to that person truly. They are not creating real communication from heart to heart.

David: That cuts through all that crap.

Jesus: They just don't like that that person in some way hurt them, for the most part. And maybe they don't like seeing that person hurt themselves, or something. But they are not willing to see that person come out of their own dream, so they can give that person their heart, and see that person's heart. One has to come out of one's own dream in order to make that kind of contact that would draw a person out of themselves.

David: And that is considered "vulnerable," "feeling," and other things that have been anathematized in the dream mindset. In other words, "Feeling will kill you. Being vulnerable will cause you to lose yourself."

Jesus: Lose your DREAM. To lose your dream.

David: Yeah. To lose your dream. Wow.

Jesus: Right. People want their dreams, hideous as they are, much as they hate them sometimes. They want them. They have built them.

David: We're attached to our own creation.

Jesus: Yeah, these little sub-dreams. That's where it really went wrong -- when they created these little self-dreams.

David: I see. When "we" was smaller than "me." And "me" then just took over the whole place. Now that we have the idea of "me uber alles," everything is gone. So I see your point there about, as soon as a sub-dream kicked in, the ballgame was ruined.

Jesus: Cause they lost touch with all the things that are really permanently real: people, themselves, others.

David: Themselves, yeah, because no one REALLY wants to be alone. And therefore, IF a person is going for self-isolation, it is true that they have lost touch with their own reality altogether.

Jesus: And sometimes, a person suddenly sees something beautiful in their friend, or in their girlfriend, or whatever, and it makes them aware: "Oh, my God! This person I'm looking at has a deep and beautiful reality." It suddenly occurs to them that there's an infinite human being in front of them, and it just would suck their heart right out of their body, right out of their dream, for a moment.

That is the potential awakening. To see again what is. Sometimes real feelings arise in a person -- maybe for some reason they let their guard down and they remember. The reality of themselves asserts itself and they remember. Or perhaps they see God as God expresses through this manifest Earth that has been created here. God is in it all.

David: I see. Yeah.

Jesus: Trees, you know, did not create a sub-dream. They are just very responsive ... man dominates over Earth. So it is heavy under the weight of humanity's dreams. But not as heavy as humanity is.

David: We just about chopped down that myrtle tree in the course of building this house. And it has popped back as the most beautiful little myrtle. Boom. So, they're not entirely suppressed.

Jesus: They are not. They are not.

David: They have surging life.

Jesus: They have the life of God that makes it grow, that makes it be. And that is why, when people go out in nature, they feel a kind of a reconnection to reality.

David: Yeah. They call it connecting to God, is what they call it.

Jesus: Exactly. Because trees don't make up crazy dreams that cause them to turn in their leaves like little balls or something. They show their leaves.

David: Yeah. Flowers bloom. They're not shy.

Jesus: The trees, what was created here, is Godly. There is nothing wrong with it.

David: Yeah. I see what you mean.

Jesus: But mankind has hardened it, put a burden on it with their dreams. It could be a lot better. It IS a lot better.

David: I see. It's fighting through that density, those assumptions.

Jesus: And it still knows what it is, but mankind doesn't.

David: Yeah. Yeah. Amazing, brother. These are great, great revelations of truth! You've done the world a world of good here tonight, brother. I'll start the snowball for us. Well, we are starting it. But this understanding makes it all so much more forceful. Thank you.